Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:27:01 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 13:27:01 GMT -5
Hello! This isn't Vietnam. Why protest the war when what has happened on sept 11? I personally have a hard time understanding why they don't agree with bombings. IMO the Pacifists are just unpatriotic in the wake of these past weeks.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:29:32 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 13:29:32 GMT -5
Not everyone is as eager to kill in name of the dead as you.
however, complaining can indeed be patriotic. Some people believe there are other ways, and do not want the country that they love to be branded as a killer or itchy with the trigger. And it is their right to do so.
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Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:40:52 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 13:40:52 GMT -5
I agree they have the right to do such, but it seems highly unrealistic to me. The actions taken are in self-defense. You cannot reason with murderers. They can disagree but I find protests against it to be wrong. Generations have died for their right to disagree. They shouldn't protest it. They can disagree. But protesting saying to stop the self-defense actions seems wrong.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:44:43 GMT -5
Post by Silmarillion on Nov 5, 2001 13:44:43 GMT -5
We aren't "killing in the name of the dead", we are trying to prevent more mass murders by terrorists....maybe even yours. As for the "other ways"....I keep hearing people saying that, but I've yet to hear any of them actually present "another way" of dealing with things. Oh yeah....that's right....we could "talk" to them and ask them nicely to stop.
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Lord Bane
Peasant
D?faitiste Extraordinaire
Posts: 63
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:46:37 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bane on Nov 5, 2001 13:46:37 GMT -5
Earth to Warlord : hundreds (and possibly soon to be thousands) of innocent Afghani civilians are dying out there, because of the bombings. Are you calling this self-defense ?
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:47:05 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 13:47:05 GMT -5
This isnt a defensive maneuver, its an offensive. Some fifteen men hijacked planes and crashed into civilian buildings killing thousands. The US responded by bombing a nation of their origin. Some people arent comfortable with that. Its not unrealistic, its the other side of the same coin.
This issue is far from black and white, and there is *no* right decision whatsoever.
P.S. And no, no ones saving *my* life, since the Jihad is not against me nor my country.
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Lord Bane
Peasant
D?faitiste Extraordinaire
Posts: 63
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:50:31 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bane on Nov 5, 2001 13:50:31 GMT -5
Minor correction, Blizzard, Afghanistan isn't their nation of origin, merely their hideout.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 13:58:20 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 13:58:20 GMT -5
I didnt mean origin as in their nationality. I meant it as where the attacks or order of attacks originated from.
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Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:09:53 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 14:09:53 GMT -5
15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Not Afgan. The organization they belong to is based there however and the nation's government supports and harbors them. Thus the direction of the bombs are correct. Those civilians being hit were warned to get out so it is their own fault. Also since the Taliban might be hiding in civilian locations to avoid being killed, and I am sure they are, I wouldn't rule anything out. They use their own people as shields afterall. As for the numbers dead.....well there are losses in any war and you have to accept that. Also I believe the number dead there has been falsified and blown out of perportion by the media over there and Taliban sympathizers.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:19:14 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 14:19:14 GMT -5
15 of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia. Not Afgan. The organization they belong to is based there however and the nation's government supports and harbors them. Thus the direction of the bombs are correct. Those civilians being hit were warned to get out so it is their own fault. Also since the Taliban might be hiding in civilian locations to avoid being killed, and I am sure they are, I wouldn't rule anything out. They use their own people as shields afterall. As for the numbers dead.....well there are losses in any war and you have to accept that. Also I believe the number dead there has been falsified and blown out of perportion by the media over there and Taliban sympathizers. You seem to be pretty edgy about the fact that innocents were killed in the US, but for some reason innocents lost in Afghan are doing so out of their own fault? Their deaths are no different from the ones that died in the US. How can you be so sure they were warned? How much time did they have to leave? *Could* they leave? Guess its ok cause they're foreign casualties. You demand retribution for innocents lost in your country, but simply 'accept' the loss of foreign innocents as losses in a war.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:19:56 GMT -5
Post by Diogenes on Nov 5, 2001 14:19:56 GMT -5
Those civilians being hit were warned to get out so it is their own fault. .<br> Okay, let's turn this piece of "logic" around, shall we? So all Osama Bin Laden has to do is say he is at war with the US, warn all Americans to "get out", and then claim that any americans who don't immediately flee the territory of the US deserve what they get for remaining. Wonderful logic.
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Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:28:23 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 14:28:23 GMT -5
You seem to be pretty edgy about the fact that innocents were killed in the US, but for some reason innocents lost in Afghan are doing so out of their own fault? Their deaths are no different from the ones that died in the US. How can you be so sure they were warned? How much time did they have to leave? *Could* they leave? Guess its ok cause they're foreign casualties. You demand retribution for innocents lost in your country, but simply 'accept' the loss of foreign innocents as losses in a war. The difference is that in the US the innocents were intentionly targeted where in Afgan they aren't. If that were the case then the entire country there would have been plastered and dust by now.
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Lord Bane
Peasant
D?faitiste Extraordinaire
Posts: 63
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:31:03 GMT -5
Post by Lord Bane on Nov 5, 2001 14:31:03 GMT -5
If we follow this logic of yours, Warlord, the US casualties the 11th also were their own fault. After all, Osama bin Laden has already declared war on the US a few years ago (remember the attacks on a couple of African embassies?), so it's the Americans own fault they didn't get away in time ?
I hope you see the utter "wrongness" of your logic ?
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Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:32:53 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 14:32:53 GMT -5
Okay, let's turn this piece of "logic" around, shall we? <br> So all Osama Bin Laden has to do is say he is at war with the US, warn all Americans to "get out", and then claim that any americans who don't immediately flee the territory of the US deserve what they get for remaining. Wonderful logic. <br> Actually he sort of did if you think about it. He is calling on all musliems to kill Americans out of duty to Islam. Where's the logic in that? None. Sometimes things aren't logical. As a whole the human race isn't.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 14:33:30 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 14:33:30 GMT -5
The difference is that in the US the innocents were intentionly targeted where in Afgan they aren't. If that were the case then the entire country there would have been plastered and dust by now. Actualy no. Their targets were actualy the monuments themselves in a slap to the face at the US, the innocents were ust a bonus. They wanted to bring down the greatest symbols of the US's prosperity(WTC), military prowess(Pentagon) and government(White House, which the fallen plane was intended for). Regardless, innocents are innocents.
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