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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:25:36 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 16:25:36 GMT -5
Theyre not Hitler. They have a beef with the people they do because they in some form or other got in the way of their beliefs.
In other words theyre 'geting back' at the US, not looking for the next place they can cause random chaos.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:28:33 GMT -5
Post by Silmarillion on Nov 5, 2001 16:28:33 GMT -5
Actualy no. Their targets were actualy the monuments themselves in a slap to the face at the US, the innocents were ust a bonus. They wanted to bring down the greatest symbols of the US's prosperity(WTC), military prowess(Pentagon) and government(White House, which the fallen plane was intended for). Regardless, innocents are innocents. OMFG...I sincerely hope you aren't implying that they didn't mean to kill all those people. If all they wanted was the monument, they could have hit it at night instead of during business hours. Use some sense. Their intention was to kill. Period. Our intention is to put a stop to it, not just on US soil, but on any soil. We've turned our backs long enough, ALL of the countries have. We, the world, have been putting up with the shit for FAR too long. You don't think they have tried "other methods" over the last 15 or so years? This didn't just start on Sept. 11th, it's been going on for quite some time. OBVIOUSLY the "other methods" weren't working very well, were they?
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Warlord
Slave
"Success is how high you bounce when you hit bottom." -General George Patton
Posts: 27
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:34:22 GMT -5
Post by Warlord on Nov 5, 2001 16:34:22 GMT -5
Warlord, That's why they call it Bezerkly. ;D Personnally, I don't think there's anything non-patriotic about the protests. They just have different beliefs and have just as much right to make fools of themselves in public as any of us do. <br> BTW, I came across this on another BBS and thought you'd get a kick out of it. A Method of Instruction ----------------------- What to do if you happen upon a peace rally by stupid naive hemp-shirt-wearing college idiots, to teach them why force is sometimes needed: 1) Approach dumb rich ignorant student talking about "peace" and saying there should be, "no retaliation." 2) Engage in brief conversation, ask if military force is appropriate. 3) When he says "No," ask, "Why not?" 4) Wait until he says something to the effect of, "Because that would just cause more innocent deaths, which would be awful and we should not cause more violence." 5) When he's in mid sentence, punch him in the face as hard as you can. 6) When he gets back up to punch you, point out that it would be a mistake and contrary to his values to strike you, because that would, "be awful and he should not want to cause more violence." 7) Wait until he agrees that he has pledged not to commit additional violence. 8. Punch him in the face again, harder this time. Repeat steps 5 through 8 until they understand that sometimes it is necessary to punch back. ------------------------- ROFL That's just perfect. I don't think I've seen a simpler way to put it ;D Thanks man I needed that laugh and it makes a very good point. 8)
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:36:13 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 16:36:13 GMT -5
OMFG...I sincerely hope you aren't implying that they didn't mean to kill all those people. If all they wanted was the monument, they could have hit it at night instead of during business hours. Use some sense. Their intention was to kill. Period. Our intention is to put a stop to it, not just on US soil, but on any soil. We've turned our backs long enough, ALL of the countries have. We, the world, have been putting up with the shit for FAR too long. You don't think they have tried "other methods" over the last 15 or so years? This didn't just start on Sept. 11th, it's been going on for quite some time. OBVIOUSLY the "other methods" weren't working very well, were they? Oh geez, how freakin stupid do you think I am. I *obviously* dont mean they didnt mean to kill those people. But they didnt just get up and say, geez, I feel like killing americans. They wanted to humiliate, frighten, and de-morralize the US. Take away that which is symbolic of what they represent. Of course they *gladly* took everyone in the way with them. The attacks were *more* than killing several thousand people. They could have done that anywhere. It hurt ten times more because they didnt strike just anywhere, but at the heart, lungs and brains of the US. P.S. I dont find the joke about assaulting someone because of their non-violent beliefs, simply to prove them otherwise amusing. You'd be surprised how many people would actualy take the punch and not lift a finger. Second it is a pointless comparisson when compared to beeing killed in a second. Do you honestly measure that up as excuse/explanation enough to kill *thousands* of innocents across the sea you have *never* met with the push of a button? A brawl on the street between two people is a pitiful comparison to what countries should do. Those two peoples decisions during the fight, or to fight, wont cost any innocent bystander his life, it wont kill any children, mothers, fathers or daughters. Put things into perspective people. The more devastating, deadly and dangerous the attack, the *more* restraint should be held.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:40:42 GMT -5
Post by Diogenes on Nov 5, 2001 16:40:42 GMT -5
Our intention is to put a stop to it, not just on US soil, but on any soil. We've turned our backs long enough, ALL of the countries have. We, the world, have been putting up with the shit for FAR too long. You don't think they have tried "other methods" over the last 15 or so years? This didn't just start on Sept. 11th, it's been going on for quite some time. OBVIOUSLY the "other methods" weren't working very well, were they? Putting up with what, Sil? Remember that the immediate reason for us being in Afghanistan happened just two months ago. The issue is what is the proper response to the WTC bombing. If you mean something more, like say terrorism in general, then that is an age old problem, and one that the US hardly is innocent of. Talk about killing innocents, how about the estimated 100,000 or so innocent Iraqi civilians killed in the Gulf War? If facts are to be faced honestly, then George Bush Sr. is a war criminal and the US is guilty of harboring terrorists like him. As for "other methods" of dealing with the WTC bombing, if you will bear with me, I will try to make a lengthy post about what I think would have been a better approach later tonight ;-)
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:46:45 GMT -5
Post by Silmarillion on Nov 5, 2001 16:46:45 GMT -5
Of course I mean terrorism in general....this war is not *just* about what happened on the 11th, it's about what's been going on for far too long in many countries. They've proven that they've only grown stronger, and that's something that must be kept in check. No, I doubt we will ever stop terrorism altogether, but we can stop them from having safe havens and political and financial backing from countries. That will keep them from getting as powerful as they have already. Is it going to cost lives? of course. Is it going to be a long process? Assuredly. But, one well worth the effort.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 16:52:25 GMT -5
Post by Diogenes on Nov 5, 2001 16:52:25 GMT -5
Of course I mean terrorism in general....this war is not *just* about what happened on the 11th, it's about what's been going on for far too long in many countries. They've proven that they've only grown stronger, and that's something that must be kept in check. No, I doubt we will ever stop terrorism altogether, but we can stop them from having safe havens and political and financial backing from countries. That will keep them from getting as powerful as they have already. Is it going to cost lives? of course. Is it going to be a long process? Assuredly. But, one well worth the effort. Our holy war here is based on a very selective and self-serving definition of "terrorism." The real problem is powerful people the world over thinking they are justified in killing innocents for this or that cause. That includes both the form of terrorism as defined by our selective propaganda and the form of terrorism as practiced by advanced states like the US. Here is a fact to chew on: The United States is responsible for the deaths of far more innocent lives in recent history than all the traditionally defined "terrorists" put together.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:00:22 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 17:00:22 GMT -5
Our holy war here is based on a very selective and self-serving definition of "terrorism." <br> The real problem is powerful people the world over thinking they are justified in killing innocents for this or that cause. <br> That includes both the form of terrorism as defined by our selective propaganda and the form of terrorism as practiced by advanced states like the US. <br> Here is a fact to chew on: The United States is responsible for the deaths of far more innocent lives in recent history than all the traditionally defined "terrorists" put together. <br> I agree. Who says whats terrorism and what isnt? Wether or not the US has the same intent as those they are attacking, does it realy matter when after all is said and done they have done no different? The Us is no better than any other nation. They arent preserving freedom, they are preserving themselves, just like any other country would do.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:08:16 GMT -5
Post by Kothoses the Tyrant on Nov 5, 2001 17:08:16 GMT -5
Anybody that thinks you can reason with terrorists should just look to the situation in Ireland that has been going on for longer than I have been alive..... and is still going on.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:13:25 GMT -5
Post by Diogenes on Nov 5, 2001 17:13:25 GMT -5
Anybody that thinks you can reason with terrorists should just look to the situation in Ireland that has been going on for longer than I have been alive..... and is still going on. Who said anything about "reasoning" with the terrorists behind the WTC bombing? Certainly not me. As I have believed from the start, they certainly should be brought to justice. The question is how to most effectively achieve that goal while causing the least harm to innocents.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:19:51 GMT -5
Post by Solaufein_Xiltyn on Nov 5, 2001 17:19:51 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Since the US is such a good christian nation I suppose we should turn the other cheek when we get slapped? What I am getting sick of, which is why I have not been to this section in the forum in a while, is these damn none Americans spouting off their warped views on how the terrorist and their partners should be dealt with. I am sure your point of view would change it if Sept 11 happen in your country to a majority of your citizens.
As far as I am concerned these terrorist are rabid animals and should be exterminated as such. They kill whoever they think is not one of them regardless if they are adults or kids or if this delusion of theirs is real or not. They preach their hate and their warped sense of what Islam is.
Afghanistan citizens being killed is a shame. But wake the fuck up! Its called a war. Inoccents will be come causalties thats just a sad fact of warfar. If the Taliban really cared for its citizens then they would have given up Laden and his dogs. Laden and his followers started this war and we will finish it[/glow]
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:27:45 GMT -5
Post by Blizzard on Nov 5, 2001 17:27:45 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Since the US is such a good christian nation I suppose we should turn the other cheek when we get slapped? What I am getting sick of, which is why I have not been to this section in the forum in a while, is these damn none Americans spouting off their warped views on how the terrorist and their partners should be dealt with. I am sure your point of view would change it if Sept 11 happen in your country to a majority of your citizens. As far as I am concerned these terrorist are rabid animals and should be exterminated as such. They kill whoever they think is not one of them regardless if they are adults or kids or if this delusion of theirs is real or not. They preach their hate and their warped sense of what Islam is. Afghanistan citizens being killed is a shame. But wake the fuck up! Its called a war. Inoccents will be come causalties thats just a sad fact of warfar. If the Taliban really cared for its citizens then they would have given up Laden and his dogs. Laden and his followers started this war and we will finish it[/glow] Hold it cowboy, who said anything about th US beeing a christian nation? It doesnt matter what religion it was based on, nobody is saying anything because of that, so leave that little tidbit out of the discussion. Second, there are plenty of americans as well who do not agree with the actions taken. Third,I am not american, but an american citizen. And the WTC tragedy affected me quite personaly, more than I care to say. But that does not mean I will automaticaly agree with the actions taken. Just like some people were absolutely not affected *do* agree. BTW just swap US with Taliban, christian with muslim, terrorist with american, and Bin Laden with Bush, in that message and you pretty much got the same sentiment only from the other side.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:31:21 GMT -5
Post by Diogenes on Nov 5, 2001 17:31:21 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300] What I am getting sick of, which is why I have not been to this section in the forum in a while, is these damn none Americans spouting off their warped views on how the terrorist and their partners should be dealt with. I am sure your point of view would change it if Sept 11 happen in your country to a majority of your citizens. [/glow] Nonsense. People from other countrys have as much right and duty to criticize US actions on the international scene as we americans have to criticize the actions of their governments. <br> And, fyi, I AM an american. The attack DID happen in my country.
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:33:38 GMT -5
Post by Solaufein_Xiltyn on Nov 5, 2001 17:33:38 GMT -5
Since christianity is the predominate religion here I used it as a generalization. The East view America as a christian crusader nation
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Berkley
Nov 5, 2001 17:39:01 GMT -5
Post by Solaufein_Xiltyn on Nov 5, 2001 17:39:01 GMT -5
Nonsense. People from other countrys have as much right and duty to criticize US actions on the international scene as we americans have to criticize the actions of their governments. <br> And, fyi, I AM an american. The attack DID happen in my country. <br> Yes I am sure they can. I myself have never been fond of the government. Actaully they have moved to slow with our current situation IMO. But I am patriotic and will defend my country regardless of my feeling of the government. They attacked us on OUR home soil and we will pay them back in kind.
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