A question about the vote

[Maigan]

I come from a country where we must vote. Americans don't have to vote.

To me that means that once enfranchised (and I come from the country that was the first to give women the vote) that one has a responsibility to take part in the decisionmaking process as an adult.

It has been taught to me that Americans think that even forcing them to vote is 'undemocratic'. I am open to any viewpoint. I have no idea how Americans feel about this - but when I discuss American foreign policy here it always comes up.

Why don't you guys in the US all vote? What does this say about you. What does forcing the vot on people say about other places.

As an australian it is simple really - we cannot whinge. But we also have a preferential system: so ultimately I have to look at who I'm voting for and where their preferences will lie, and I dont vote for the nation's leader (the party inpower elects the leader).

Goddam it! What is a reasonable system and wherein does true democratic leadership lie?

I haven't answered all these questions myself because I don't mind our system and I don't much mind anyone else's system. But maybe I will change my mind.

[Blade]

I'm an american and I've voted in every election for which I've been eligible.  But you are right, plenty of other americans don't.  When asked why, typical responses are: Why bother, he's going to win anyway.  or, My vote won't count so what's the point? or, I don't like any of them, they're all bums.  The last is usually true but still,  you can write in your own name if you want.  Sadly (or not), most americans feel very removed from their government.  We're most happy if they just do their washington thing and leave us the hell alone.  Of course, the events of Sep. 11th may change that, for good or ill I can't say.
As to whether forcing everyone to vote is "democratic" or not, I don't have a strong opinion.  Personally, I don't like to be "forced" to do anything, I prefer to choose.  However, manditory voting is probably not that terrible.  I guess I'm not quite sure why you'd want to do it that way.

[ElricMorlockin]

Yes Maigan! And it makes me sick to my stomach to think of all the people that have died in order to "give" them a vote. Perhaps therein lies the problem. They were "given" the right and never had to earn that right. When something is earned through hard work and perserverance (sp.. geeze I slaughtered that one!) it is much, much, MUCH more appreciated than something that is simply given to them.
Damn the self esteem of people! If they are good they will have self esteem because, again, they earned it!
 I would honestly like to see, voting in the USA go back to only those who own real estate. After all, were the ones that usually foot the majority of tax bills that everyone else wants to vote on! For those who would say nay, I say... that owning a home in America is one of the easiest process' that any citizen can go through. Its much easier, in fact, than is believed! But again, voting and home ownership go hand in hand somewhat. In both there are rights, and responsibilities to those rights. Who has the spine to for the responsibilities?

[Silmarillion]

I most certainly would not agree with mandatory voting....voting is a right and a privilege, not an obligation.  I don't want to be *forced* to do anything.

Do I vote in every election?  Well....I've only been old enough to vote in 3 elections, and two of them were Clinton.....and I voted for him, twice.

I could make many excuses as to why I didn't vote in the last election...but what it boils down to is that I didn't feel strongly enough about either of the candidates to make the extra effort it would have required.  (I was in the middle of moving, lots of things going on in my life, I would have had to drive to another state to do it, etc, etc)  I plan on voting in every election hereafter, though.   The last one was just me being lazy and not *really* liking either of the candidates.

Why do many Americans *not* vote?  Two main reasons, I believe.....primarily because they feel that their vote doesn't matter.  And, I can see where they get that from.  Our president isn't elected by popular vote, unfortunately.   They need to do away with that damn electoral college BS.  I think if they did, they would see a great many more Americans voting....their vote *would* matter more in that case.  Another reason....they just don't care.   Perhaps They don't like either candidate, don't really want either of them in office, and don't want to feel like they had a hand in putting some jerk in office.  It's hard to say....but, I agree that there is too much apathy where this is concerned.

And, I agree with Blade in that most Americans feel removed from our government and are very happy to just let them do their thing, and them let us do ours.

[ElricMorlockin]

Sil, I disagree. If we "do away with the Electoral College BS" each of the "other" states dont really have much of a say. Those "other" states are the 48 that arent New York or California! And if anything came out of the last election, its the fact that EVERY vote counts!

[Silmarillion]

ElricMorlockin said:

!
 I would honestly like to see, voting in the USA go back to only those who own real estate. After all, were the ones that usually foot the majority of tax bills that everyone else wants to vote on! For those who would say nay, I say... that owning a home in America is one of the easiest process' that any citizen can go through. Its much easier, in fact, than is believed! But again, voting and home ownership go hand in hand somewhat. In both there are rights, and responsibilities to those rights. Who has the spine to for the responsibilities?

WTF?  Are you insane?  So, if I don't own a home, I have no right to vote, huh?  What BS!  What about college students?  What about the fact that maybe I don't NEED or WANT to own a home?  So, because I don't *need* or want to spend $100,000 - 300,000 on a home, I shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Sorry Elric, but I hope and pray that NEVER happens.  Talk about setting up class distinctions, good lord!  

[Kothoses the Tyrant]

Wonders if Elric will start Wanting to bring back burning at the steak and slavery too?  Sorry mate but thats an outdated princaple, and one that belongs consigned to history along with slavery and Subjugation.

The right to vote is an important one, I however use my right to vote to state a point "I DO NOT TRUST ANY POLLITICAL PARTY" to look out for my interests before their own, and I think that they would gladly sell me down the river to make a quick one them selves, so why should I vote for people I do not trust.

My right to my voice is expressed in my silence.

[pedro2112]

Frankly, I wish less people would vote in this country. Especially after reading some of my fellow american citizens' "reasons' and "opinions" on political and governmental matters. If someone has no interest in voting, I would STRONGLY suggest they stay at home on the couch watching Oprah rather than vote.

[Silmarillion]

ElricMorlockin said:

Sil, I disagree. If we "do away with the Electoral College BS" each of the "other" states dont really have much of a say. Those "other" states are the 48 that arent New York or California! And if anything came out of the last election, its the fact that EVERY vote counts!

How ya figure?  What would the states have to do with anything if there were no electoral college?  We're talking about popular vote, doesn't matter which state the person is from.

[ElricMorlockin]

Silmarillion said:

WTF?  Are you insane?  So, if I don't own a home, I have no right to vote, huh?  What BS!  What about college students?  What about the fact that maybe I don't NEED or WANT to own a home?  So, because I don't *need* or want to spend $100,000 - 300,000 on a home, I shouldn't be allowed to vote?

Sorry Elric, but I hope and pray that NEVER happens.  Talk about setting up class distinctions, good lord!  <br>

Insane? Naaa not at all! Its funny how you can ask someone if they voted and said Naaaa, didnt feel like it, but tell them they no longer have the right and they go ballistic! (Dont go beet red Sil this is a general statement!  ).
 Back to the point. Sil, do you think its fair that property holders (note: Taxable property isnt necessarily a "home") foot the bill for the taxes that the "masses" want? My point was this and I probably should have added more to it. If the local schools want a new levy passed, and were forced to do so via a sales tax, they never would get their money! The average person would bitch up a storm!!!  However, they wisely (I think it sucks but at least they are smart enough to know human nature), approach their financial needs with an increase in property tax. In other words, non-property holders "shuck" the bill for the schools off on those that do own property. The end result winds up being that the folks who do own property in areas where they are definitely out voted (ie. Inner cities) head to the suburbs. Now they also go for a plethora of "other reasons" but this is definitely one of them.
 An idea in my opinion, would be that if folks that dont own property want to vote, they can pull their resources and jointly buy plots of abandoned buildings etc in the inner city. At least this way they have to pay for some of the tax increases that are necessary to deliver all the services people seem to want.
 LOL! Fonzie! Burning at the stake ehh? Sure why not!  
The right "not to vote" IMO is fine. That also gives you no right to bitch about anything that the government does! If you choose not to cast your vote, than IMO you have also chosen not to be part of that election and the results of such. Voting is a great lesson in life actually. You dont necessarily always get your way!!! And people that perservere (sp?) usually get what they want. Considering what other people have sacrificed in order for you to even have a choice, I think that a free citizen should show their respect by doing their civil duty.!

[Diogenes]

pedro2112 said:

Frankly, I wish less people would vote in this country. Especially after reading some of my fellow american citizens' "reasons' and "opinions" on political and governmental matters. If someone has no interest in voting, I would STRONGLY suggest they stay at home on the couch watching Oprah rather than vote.

Amen to that.  

[Kothoses the Tyrant]

As pedro would say
Elric Proclaimed, "Considering what other people have sacrificed in order for you to even have a choice, I think that a free citizen should show their respect by doing their civil duty."

My civil duty is to excorsise my opinion on who should run the country right?  Well at this present moment I think Voteing here is more a case of who will make the least mess of it, untill a party or Pollitical figure comes who inspires confidence in me I dont see why I should be hypocritical to state "yeah he/she would do a goiod job", when I dont feel any of them will, My civic duty is to vote for some one I fell can and will run my country well, when such a person arises I will vote for them.

[Diogenes]

Don't vote, it only encourages them ;-)

Seriously, there are many reasons for not voting, like the fact that none of the candidates may deserve a vote.  <br>
People talk about the "lesser of two evils."  Hell, supporting such a system by choosing between them on that basis simply legitimizes and continues a system which constantly creates an evil of two lessers.  <br>
Perhaps there should be a section on the ballot box labeled "none of the above", and if that section wins, the office should stay vacant until the next election.  I bet that option would increase voter turnout.  ;-)

Regarding american voting patterns in general, I am reminded of a frighteningly funny, and accurate, Simpsons episode where both major party candidates for president turn out to be space aliens seeking to destroy earth.  When Homer finds that out, he considers for a moment voting for one of the 3rd party candidates, but one of the aliens retorts:  "Go ahead, throw away your vote," and Homer exclaims "He's right!" and promptly votes for one of the major party space aliens.  <br>
Really funny, but disturbingly accurate regarding the american voting mentality.  <br>
Finally, regarding the  common bumper sticker that says "Don't blame me, I voted for so and so" (typically the losing major part candidate), well, hell, I DO blame you, for helping to perpetuate our ridiculous system of voting for either Tweetledee or Tweetledum.  

[Diogenes]

Elric, the suggestion that only rich people should really run the government because they are the ones who pay for it is so wrongheaded, on so many different levels, that it is difficult for me to frame a response without spitting blood ;-)

[Kothoses the Tyrant]

Diogenes said:

Elric, the suggestion that only rich people should really run the government because they are the ones who pay for it is so wrongheaded, on so many different levels, that it is difficult for me to frame a response without spitting blood ;-)

I would agree (I am going to have to stop doing that, it doesnt look good for a Tyrant to agree with the Minions)
Its Capitalism gone mad, what next, The more you earn per year the more votes you get, for every 10kpa you take home you get one vote, hey landlords you have 20 people liveing in your appt's so u get 20 votes?